A Response to Popular Scriptures Used by "Once Saved Always Saved" - Bible Teaching #10
This was a real reply to a missionary we met in Jacksonville, Florida in September of 2022. This was typed in the Spirit on September 24th 2022.
This was sadly rejected by the missionary but would be beneficial to the body of Christ at large. Thus why this is now available for the public.
Hey Jeremy, in this message I will be prayerfully reading and responding to what the Spirit gives me with every passage that you have sent contradicting "Conditional Security".
Before you go any further, make sure you have a Bible ready and prayerfully consider everything that is addressed.
First you mentioned 2 Timothy 2:12-13.
"If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself."
The first verse we can both agree sounds conditional. The second verse sounds unconditional. After prayer and receiving insight, the Lord showed me the key to understanding that verse is the word "covenant", Strong's G1242. It means a disposition or a contract. Now in a contract there are 2 sides. If one side does not hold to the terms agreed on then there is a breach of contract. Usually there is a listed penalty for the breach of contract. So if we are faithless which is a synonym for unfaithful, we break our side of the contract. Resulting in a necessary punishment according to what was agreed on for breaking the contract. So if we are faithless and break the contract, He is still faithful by upholding and executing the procedure for a breach on contract. He can not deny His own terms that He made. The penalty for a breach in contract being loss of salvation. As listed in several places, we went over just a couple when we were together.
Second verse you listed was, Ephesians 1:19-20.
"and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,"
Yes beautiful description of the power that we have when we remain in Him. But this does not say that you can not lose such power through disobedience.
Third you mentioned, Ephesians 2:6.
"and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"
Notice, this is only for those who are in Christ Jesus. As we see from 1 John 3:24, "...he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him..." So if you do not keep His commands but sin, you are not abiding in Him. Thus nullifying us sitting in the heavenly places.
Fourth you mentioned, Ephesians 2:10.
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
This is a topic that I touched on in my next article that is not up yet. On the surface it sounds like He only predestined believers. But when read with the rest of Scripture. In sections such as, 1 Timothy 2:3-4, 2 Peter 3:9, Genesis 22:18. We learn that it is Gods desire for all to be comformed to the image of His Son. He created all of us for good works, but will we walk in them? That choice He leaves up to us. If we do not do what He wants, He will give our work to soneone else, Esther 4:14, Matthew 3:8-9, Luke 19:40, 1 Samuel 15:10-35, etc... These are just a few passages confirming such.
Fifth you mentioned, John 14:17.
"the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."
Amen, that is the Lord's side of the covenant or contract, notice in John 14:15-16, this is all contingent on showing our love by keeping His commands. Failure to do so breaches the covenant or contract.
Sixth you mentioned, John 17:11.
"Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are."
That is Jesus asking the Father to keep us, not a definite declaration. Such things will happen though, He will not forsake us, if we uphold our part of the covenant.
Seventh you mentioned, John 17:21.
"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me."
Same thing, not a definite declaration. But yes we will be one with the Father and the Son when we surrender our will, and make His will ours. His will He gave us through commands in His Scriptures. Remember John 1:1, John 1:14, and Revelation 19:13. Jesus is His Word. So by following His commands we become one with Him and when we become one with Jesus through His commands, we become one with the Father. Once again this is relying on obedience.
Eighth you mentioned, John 17:23.
"I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."
Same thing as the previous verse, being one with Him is through repentance. No longer doing what we want but doing what He wants. Once again relying on obedience, with disobedience nullifying being one with Jesus and the Father.
Ninth you mentioned, 1 Peter 1:18-19.
"knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
This is not saying that our redemption is incorruptible but that what we were redeemed with is incorruptible. Saying that He is much more precious than silver or gold, so treat it with such a mindset. Not trampling Him underfoot or treating His blood as unholy, as mentioned in Hebrews 10:29.
Tenth you mentioned, 1 John 4:17.
"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world."
Once again conditional on us being as He is in this world. Requires action. Doing the things that He did and saying the things that He said. That is when love is perfected and we may have boldness in the day of judgement. Remember "God is love", therefore, if we do what He did and say what He said, then we are walking in love.
Eleventh you mentioned, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
Once again, only if you are "in Christ". Have you ever met a junkie after they came out of rehab? They usually seem like a "new person" when off the drugs, their actions display such. Same when we are "in Christ" our actions are no longer what we used to do. Making us a "new creation". But if a junkie returns to drugs as a dog returns to his vomit, 2 Peter 2:22, then he is no longer a new creation but the old creation. A persons actions define who they are, John 8:37-44.
Twelveth you mentioned, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Amen! I tell people a lot who misunderstand what I teach. I do not believe you have to work to be saved, but now that you are saved you better work! Like Ephesians 2:8, you are greatful from the undeserved favor the Lord has shown you, so now you are faithful to Him. Grace is a 2 way thing, favor on the part of the giver, thankfulness on the part of the receiver. So you are saved because you are thankful for Gods gift of forgiveness and because of your thankfullness you are faithful. This also ties in with Romans 6:15-23. Now we are slaves of righteousness, we embody the righteousness of Christ through our actions because we are thankful for Gods gift to us. We are dead to sin and now alive in Christ.
Thirteenth you mentioned is, Phillipians 2:12-13.
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
Yes Amen. He does give us the want to do what pleases Him. But this does not say that He does not give us a choice to disobey. Still our choice to uphold our side of the contract. Hebrews 11:15 backs that up, if we recall where we came from we are more than welcome to return.
Fourteenth you mentioned, Ephesians 1:22.
"And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,"
Amen, He did put all things under Christ's feet. And the same will happen to us if we continue to the end, Matthew 24:13. We see in Hebrews 2:6-9 that not all things are put under our feet yet. But we will reign with Him if we are faithful to the end, can i get an Amen for that? Praise the Lord!
Fifteenth you mentioned, Colossians 1:22.
"in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—"
Read the very next verse, Colossians 1:23. Starts off with an "if" thus making it a condition. "if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister." Once again conditional on us upholding our part of the covenant or contract.
Sixteenth you mentioned, I am assuming 2 Corinthians 5:5 since there is no Colossians 5:5.
"Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee."
Beautiful, He does give us the Spirit as a gurantee, but it does not say that He can not take the Spirit away if we do not uphold our part. I can provide examples in the Old Testament with such actions such as, 1 Samuel 15:10-35 and Psalm 51:11. You said at dinner that the Spirit did not fill anyone in the Old Covenant but just was with them. Here are 3 Old Covenant examples of the Spirit filling people before Jesus' death, Exodus 35:31, Luke 1:41, Luke 1:67. So the Spirit did fill, even in the Old Covenant.
Seventeenth you mentioned, Ephesians 1:14.
"who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."
Amen! Yes the Holy Spirit is the gurantee, if we have Him. But if He is taken away, what then?
Eighteenth you mentioned, 1 Peter 2:5.
"you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
Once again only if we keep our side of the covenant. We have to consider Gods goodness and severity. If we do not continue in His goodness we also will be cut off Romans 12:22.
Nineteenth you mentioned, 1 Peter 2:9.
"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"
As already mentioned, all are chosen to come out of darkness to His wonderful light, but we have to accept the calling.
Twentyith you mentioned, 1 Peter 2:24.
"who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed."
Thats it! Die to sins, live for righteousness. Another condition. Requires action on our part, failure to do so breaches the contract resulting in the prescribed penalties.
Twenty-first you asked if I have ever sinned since the rebirth, and tried to make an argument through 1 John that you can not sin.
That doctrine is called "sinless perfection". We know that is incorrect because in the very same book we have 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:1. Saying that the truth is not in us if we say we have no sin. Remember all unrighteousness is sin, 1 John 5:17. Not all sin leads to death, so now we have the question, what sin or type of sins lead to death? Well we have some clues. In Hebrews 10:26 it talks about willful sin. Now what is willful sin? It is the Strong's number G1596, it means voluntary. This is sin that we know is wrong, we are convicted of it but we choose to do it anyways. Basically slapping Jesus in the face with our actions. Not something that we are confused on at the moment or a decision that could have been better that we were not 100% sure of. Even our thoughts are considered sin in Matthew 5:21-30.
In that case is it possible to live completely sinless? By no means! But if you know it is wrong and knowingly do it anyways, you return to the creature you were before and violate the contract. Even thinking a thought that you know is wrong, and voluntarily continuing to think it. Even in the Old Testament there is a distinction between ignorant and presumptuous sin. With different consequences. Read Numbers 15:22-31. There was not even a sacrifice for presumptious(willful) sin! Such sins in the New Covenant lead to spiritual death, 1 John 5:17. There is not a true Scriptural backing for the amount of willful or presumptuous sin required to achieve that, but I can say confidently that such sin will lead there.
If we are asking how much sin it takes, we are asking the wrong question. It is like asking a wife how many times you can cheat on her before the marriage is broken. Just don't do it!
Now God is merciful and slow to wrath (thank God!). But He is also just and "will judge His people", Hebrews 10:30. For he who knows his Masters will and does not do it will be beaten with many stripes, Luke 12:47-48. According to that, our judgement will be stricter and worse than the worlds! But through repentance from willful sin we have an opportunity to be grafted back in, Ezekiel 33:12-20, Romans 11:23 and Luke 15:11-32.
I hope this clears some things up for you.
Written in love,
God bless and Godspeed.
I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts and am willing to discuss any of these topics and more, in great detail. If you would like.
Email:
Michael.servantofchrist@gmail.com
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